Rick Rubin
Life Among the Wildflowers

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What do you look for in new artists?
It’s really about falling in love. I’m not looking for any type of anything or to fit any mold. I’m not looking for the next Prince or something. It’s really an emotional connection that transcends any genre.

But what? It makes you smile, nod your head to the beat, what?
Just listen to feelings. You just know. You don’t even have to think about it. When you listen to music you know what you like and what you don’t.

Yes, but you seem to have a more immediate grasp of what you like and what you don’t than most people.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Some of the things that I love the best when I first heard them, I laughed at them and thought that they were crazy. I remember when I first heard The Ramones; I just laughed. I thought they were ridiculous, and they became one of my favorite groups.

When something is revolutionary, it’s hard on first listen to accept it. There’s a shocking period there where you don’t know. A lot of the things that you hear once and you love may fade faster… sometimes it’s the stuff that takes a little while to get around before you realize how good it is that really stays with you. Because that’s the stuff that’s different.

How, out of the immense amount of aspiring artists out there, did you find Saul? And Paloalto?
A Paloalto tape was given to me, and I liked it enough to ask them to play for me. Usually when we go to a showcase there’s one good song, otherwise we wouldn’t be at the showcase. And maybe there’s a second song that’s okay. This band played ten songs for me, and every song was good. And unlike each other—it didn’t sound like the same song done different ways. So it was an unusual experience—to find a young band that had that level of quality in writing.

And Saul, I was in a record store in London and I heard a hip hop record. It sounded like it had vocals sampled from an old ’60s record, because the words were too intelligent for something written today. It sounded like The Last Poets, Gil Scott-Heron—something important, not disposable. I found out who made that record and it said, “Vocals: Saul Williams.” I figured maybe Saul was the guy that they sampled from a long time ago, but I did research and found out he was 25 years old. And I hadn’t heard a voice like his, a meaningful voice, in a very long time.

Part of a producer’s job, usually, is to help guide a band, which, given the nature of band politics, can be difficult. Did you think you deliberately developed a persona that was a little intimidating to make the job easier?
No, it probably was a device to survive life more than being a gimmick to present an image. It was probably just to live in the world and be okay.

So how do you help guide a band to a great record?
There’s nothing better than telling the truth. When I start working with a band, I explain, “Look, I’m just going to tell you everything I think. I’m telling you that, not in any way to criticize what you do, but to do my job.”

Do you think consciously about how to present your opinions?
Of course. That’s really important. But I let them know that I’m going to say what I think. And they can listen to what I say, accept it and try it, or they can say, “You know what? What you don’t like about this is what I like about it. F**k you, it’s fine.”

If they fight hard enough you’ll give in.
Always. But I always ask. Because what we do is really a big experiment, and there’s no reason not to try different things. If it doesn’t work, we all know it doesn’t work. Usually. And we get in the habit of trying a lot of different things. You get everyone thinking in terms of “nothing’s in stone, there’s the potential for more.” Usually.

It’s really a completely collaborative effort. Anyone who’s got a good idea, if it makes the record better, we use it.

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